Here's to you Mrs. Robinson! Older women/younger men. Conversations with Spencer!

Here’s to you Mrs. Robinson! Older women/Younger men.   

Aloha everyone! Thanks for the readers who come and continue to read Conversations with Spencer! We appreciate you listening to our thoughts on sex, love and relationships.  

There’s always something that comes up as we talk about some of these things. For those of you who don’t know us. I’m Meg Amor and my conversational partner is Spencer Dryden. We both writer ‘vanilla’ erotic romance. We’re fascinated by the viewpoints on sex, love and relationships from the male and female side of things.  

The vanilla orchid and the pods we get the spice from

So, today we’re discussing the real life or fantasy of the older women and younger man scenario.  

I’m the real life version. Spencer’s will be fantasies he’s always had. As always, we’re asking WHY?  

Why is it appealing? Why do women and men like this?  

I’ll start us off. I’ve been married three times and two of my husbands were younger than me. My late husband by five years and my previous husband by twelve. A previous boyfriend was ten years younger. In between I went out with a man fifteen older than me. Recently I did a ‘Mrs. Robinson’ with someone half my age. Although…really… I DO think he seduced me. J We’re still discussing it. LOL. 

Mrs Robinson in The Graduate

So, Spencer, what do you want to know? I’m going to let you ask the questions today and I’ll answer them. And of course, ask you anything back?  

SPENCER:

I don't know why there is a stigma attached to it. I think my fantasy comes from my sexual inexperience.  I was 19 when I met my first wife and she had just turned 18. Both of us had a load of old time Catholic training to overcome regarding sex. My wife had other 'issues' that I didn't learn about until much later that had a big bearing on our sex life. So I spent my most virile years in a nearly sexless marriage being confused and unable to successfully express myself to my wife. She had me convinced my urges were excessive, if not evil. By religious training I was set up to accept that put down.  

Later, after our divorce I started meeting women who were more experienced and more relaxed about sex. I've said on many forums, including this one, if a man is going to be a good sexual partner, it's because a woman has gently taught him how. So I think the fantasy began as a lament for the time I lost. How much more enjoyable life could have been if I had been with a woman who appreciated my sexual attention. Someone familiar enough with her own sexual responsiveness that she could help me trigger it. That confidence and familiarity comes with age. 

In reality I have never dated a woman older than I am. I've never even been in a social situation where I was around a woman ten or fifteen years older than me who showed any interest.  

MEG:  

Okay, this brought up an interest point for me. I’ve never though of it from that perspective before. That a younger man might be hopeful that I’d cast my smolder in his direction. (If you’re not familiar with the ‘smolder,’ please read our Pick Up Lines blog. J) Although obviously, I HAVE done this, otherwise I wouldn’t have had the experiences I’ve had. LOL. Although I have to say, if a younger guy was trying to catch my attention and I thought he was lovely, I’d definitely respond. It was interesting too to notice the age gap you mentioned. Is that set in concrete, i.e. ten to fifteen years difference or could you go beyond that?  

My biggest age difference was when I was forty-one and attracted in the attention of a guy who was twenty-one. He was the chef at a pizza place I used to go to in Volcano on the Big Island. He was a sweetie, lovely dusting of freckles across his nose, that sat under sexy blue eyes. I enjoyed talking to him every time I was in there. He had a gorgeous smile and easy manner. I think he asked me out and I was quite chuffed. I told my friends and Wendy said in horror, “But he’s about twenty.”  

“No, he’s not, he’s older than that,” I said. Well, he was, but only by a year. LOL.  

I thought, “Oh well, whatever, why not.”  

Now he was the one that I ran away from, that couldn’t be taught a jolly thing. See ‘Sex Tips’ blog. LOL. He wouldn’t slow down. Wasn’t open to gentle teaching, not so gentle teaching. I’d hate to group ‘all young guys’ in one set, but I do wonder how many would really be open to being taught anything. Ego seems such a huge thing at that age and silly pride.  

My ex, who I’ll call Andrew had bunches of it. He was an academic by training and whether he thought he was smarter than everyone else, I don’t know. We went to France once and he refused point blank, to utter a single word of French. I have half a dozen phrases I use and they have always gotten me through France. I’m polite, use please, thank you, hello, goodbye, and I would like… My ability to retain the vocab for another language stops me speaking it well.  

So, I’m hardly a fluent French speaker, but I’ve never had anyone be rude to me. I try and that works. But he just refused to even learn those simple phrases. He was certainly bright enough to easily get them. In Paris, a French waiter was really rude to him. I said to Andrew, “Well, serves you right. You’re in their country and you won’t even speak some basic French. What do you expect?” (Yes, I was slightly exasperated with him at that stage of things.) And I could never get to the bottom of why he wouldn’t learn it. I came to the conclusion, it must have been dopey pride or ego.  

We had a terrible sex life, he couldn’t kiss to save himself. And wouldn’t learn. Well, that’s your ‘entry’ point for me. If you can’t kiss, I’m not going to be turned on. Biggest sexual zone for me.  

When we finally split up, we were still friends. He’d stayed one night and the next morning he said, “Can you teach me to kiss please?”  

I looked at him like he’d grown a couple of heads.  

“What! You wouldn’t learn it why we were married and now you want to now?” I was wild.  

“Please. You can’t send me out into the world like this. You know I can’t kiss properly.”  

For God’s sake!! So, I did teach him. I wasn’t very nice about it either. “No, not like that. No. Wrong. You’re slobbering. Okay, better. Yes. Practice on your arm. Let me look. Okay, practice on me. More. Fuck!”

“That did something for you, didn’t it?” he asked when we’d come up for air. He could see my response.  

“Oh yeah…” I said. “Did you feel it too?” I asked him.  

Yes, he’d finally got it. A day late and a dollar late, but oh well.  

SPENCER:

My second wife, the love of my life, is five years younger than I am. I was in my early thirties when we met. She was much more sexually experienced than I was.  

The fantasy of the older woman plays against the male ideal of older rich guy with hot young trophy wife. I don't know how real that is either, or if there is any happiness in it. In your story of Henry and Isolde their love springs from what they do for each other, rather than what they are trying to get from the other. That's a formula for abiding love at any age. 

I find this man so extraordinarily beautiful ~ he's 77 and he's sexy as hell. He's deeply interesting as a person.

MEG:

Yes, agreed. I think that’s the thing that strikes people about the relationship between Henry and Izzy. (Isolde) She just loves him in a deep unconditional way. She doesn’t actually see him as any age, he’s just her beautiful Henry. He’s much more aware of her age to his, but it doesn’t bother her at all. I took this from my own experience of going out with someone older and adoring him. You do love who you love, at the end of the day.  

I had a girlfriend who was 42 and her husband was 22. He just adored her. He thought she was the most magical person on the planet. And as Barbara used to say, “I know people don’t get what Ed sees in me, I’m fat, frumpy and forty, but he loves me so much.” And he did love her: untidy gray hair, dumpy, rolls of fat body, several horrible children, unruly animals and house full of sign writing. 

SPENCER:

I think one of the barriers to the older woman/younger man may have to do with the emotional maturity of the man. We are often into very sophomoric stuff in our youth, most of which is a complete misunderstanding of what a woman wants in a man. The age of each is also relevant. For a fifteen year spread, thirty-five and twenty is a much different pairing than forty-five and thirty.

MEG:  

Agreed. In this country, everyone frowns on ‘underage’ sex, but other countries that are more progressive and not so sanctimonious have different views. I only bring this up because I find the whole ‘legal’ issue here confusing. In most countries, an age limit on sex is to protect people from true pedophilia, not to throw horny teenagers in jail as they experiment with sex at a very natural age and progression.  

And despite these strange attitudes, most Americans have had sex ‘underage’ anyway. It’s a hypocrisy which I find ridiculous. When I traveled the Southern States, through the ‘Bible Belt,’ I was astounded at the sheer size and amount of ‘sex warehouses.’ I’m assuming selling sex toys and other goodies for people. I never saw these humongous warehouse type places anywhere else in the States. The irony was crazy.  

Anyway, where I’m going with this is that you love who you love. And yes, the age differences through the growing up and maturing of young men is quite marked at times. In Australia, I had some friends whose son was fifteen and going out with a thirty-five year old woman. They’d been together for a while too. They had a lovely connection. I asked my friends about this and they were happy about it. They liked her and their son was happy and content. They just wanted him to not be up too late on a school night, because he was doing his School Cert. or University Entrance. (Australasians start High School at 12 or 13, so by 15 or 16, they’re getting ready to go out into the world, either to Uni or a job.) (Perhaps this accounts for a different attitude overall too. I’m not sure.)  

So, anyway, you know… What the hell?   

Which brings us to the next question I asked Spencer.  

How would you feel if one of you sons did a Mrs. Robinson with someone?  

SPENCER:

Despite my fantasy of the older woman, younger man, I admit it would be a bit uncomfortable if one of my sons brought home an older woman. My wife and I have to constantly remind ourselves that the boys are emancipated adults so we have no say in their business. A true Mrs. Robinson would be the mother of a girl he knows. That would be awkward. It would be easier to deal with than, "Hey dad, guess what? You're going to be a grandpa."  

MEG:            

Er, so it sort of comes under the ‘lesser of two evils’ banner. LOL.  

Well, I was being a bit generic when I said Mrs. Robinson. I really just meant the older woman/younger man scenario. I’m wondering how you’d feel if it wasn’t someone you knew. And what a double standard. LOL. 

My next question: What appeals to you about an older woman? 

SPENCER:  

I find the appeal in older women to be in their comfort in their own skin. Whatever a woman loses in muscle tone with time is more that compensated for by a bright outlook, a lusty smile and some wisdom that comes with age.  

MEG: 

What do you think of the French system of old, whereby they educated their sons in the art of sex? 

SPENCER:  

Wouldn't it be great if we could educate boys and girls in the art of sex? Considering how important it is to a relationship it should be as important a topic as learning to cook, balancing a checkbook, or driving a car. What a hopeless thought. We can't get sex education past the neocons, how would we ever go about slipping this into a cultural norm. Why did we ever quit doing it, or do the French still do it? 

The good news is the internet offers a wealth of information that wasn't available to us in past generations. Not that the internet isn't a cesspool at times but for someone truly interested, there is a wealth of great material out there. Hey, they could always read erotica. The Good Man Project (in which were were both featured) says in no uncertain terms that reading erotica can be a starting place for couples to discuss sexuality. So we erotic writers are providing a valuable public service.  

MEG: 

LOL. But only if you’re over eighteen. LOL.  

I tried to do some research on the French sex education and couldn’t find anything definitive. So I’m not sure. But I think it’s a really good idea. In the guys that I’ve come across who WERE good lovers at an earlier age, I’ve asked them about it and they said they’d started out with an older women on their first or second attempt at sex. And it had made all the difference. They knew to slow down, pay attention, that turning the woman on was the key to getting so much more out of it for themselves. They also genuinely seemed to like women. They had a respect for them. And whether this was part of their overall make-up I’m not sure. But I still remember those ones extremely fondly.  

My character Charlie, who becomes an equal part of the relationship with Henry and Izzy in the end, was taught by an older woman. And it shows on him. When he brings it up for his son Alex, Henry has to wrestle with it, because he knows it was good for Charlie, but also his puritanical American upbringing grabs him slightly. Whereas Izzy is less shocked being a New Zealander. Charlie likens it to driving lessons in the end and Henry exclaims, “It’s not quite the same thing, Charlie.” But maybe it is, or should be.

My next question. Yes, I lied. I did actually think of some questions for Spencer after all that. LOL 

A couple of times you’ve mentioned ‘sexually aggressive’ women? What does that mean? 

SPENCER:  

I think the term 'sexually aggressive' may be harsh for a woman's ears. Guys are supposed to be aggressive. I once went to men's ADVANCE. The organizers said men didn't RETREAT. (hopeless sigh) (Meg: LOL… OMG… semantics gone mad!!)

Let's say ASSERTIVE. I always liked meeting sexually assertive women. A sexually assertive woman: begins the conversation, kisses you first, puts your hand on her breast when it's time to move on, tugs at your clothes before you start on hers, pulls you into the bedroom, is very clear about her desire for intercourse, makes lots of noise, is the first to suggest other positions and, of course, builds your ego by telling how good you are.  

Meg, Meg? Where did you go? Oh sorry folks, I think Meg left to go thow-up. Well an assertive woman makes life easier for a shy guy. Be assertive, make a shy guy happy. 

MEG:  

LOL. No, didn’t need my neat wee airline bag on that one. Other than maybe, the ego building bit. J Yes, I don’t like the term ‘sexually aggressive.’ It’s up there with ‘nymphomaniac’ for me. It’s got that ring of unnaturalness to it and smacks of misogyny. The idea that men can be sexually hungry, but women can’t. Okay, BARF bag.

I think it’s slowly getting to the place where the old outdated ideas that men are more sexually interested generally than women are starting to—hopefully—fall by the wayside. Women may be taught to be ‘chaste’ from an early age, but I’m not sure it’s the natural way of things. I think we’re all naturally sexually active as human beings. Or we should be.  

Sex done right is so gorgeous, why should only the men enjoy themselves.  

To me, a sexually aggressive person, is someone who won’t take no for an answer. And that’s got major ick factor for me. What about a sexually ‘healthy’ person. J And that means both people equally feeling they can ask for what they want or make the first move etc. I wonder if our younger guys are more confidence than you or I were at the same age Spencer. I wish we could interview your guys? I must get my toyboy round here again and put these questions to him. J  

Last question: What older actresses appealed to you when you were younger.  

SPENCER: 

Actresses. I thought that Sigourney Weaver was much older than me. It turns out we are the same age, but in Ghostbusters, I thought she carried off a maturity that made her seem older. Oh my she was so hot in that movie and is there anyone who can kick alien ass better? 

Going further back further, Jacqueline Bisset comes to mind. Again, she is only six years older than I am, but played parts with greater maturity. How Steve McQueen left her behind each day to be Bullit, speaks for how  he embodied male cool. I would have just stayed in the nifty San Francisco apartment and drooled over her all day. Which explains why I didn't get the part of Frank Bullit. 

Raquel Welch is ten years older than I am. She wasn't a talent actress but I think she launched more seamen than the British Navy. 

Raquel Welch

MEG:  

Yes, she was a bombshell. I’d agree with that one. Very sultry looking. Possibly where I perfected my smolder from. LOL.  

Okay, so once again, have we answered anything or waffled on endlessly? I don’t know, but it’s always interesting nonetheless. LOL. Next time we might do a subject like body hair, love it, hate it? What do we think of the newish trend—none anywhere look? It personally makes me squirm, but that’s just me. More on why that makes me squirm on our next Conversations with Spencer. 

Thanks as always to the readers. We love seeing people’s responses and appreciate people reading.  

Aloha from Meg and Spencer!!!

CONTACT US AT:

MEG AMOR: www.troikaromance.com

SPENCER DRYDEN: www.fictionbyspencer.com