Aloha everyone! Today I’m having a
chat with my fellow Romance Erotica writer Spencer Dryden about an article we were
both lucky enough to be interviewed for in the excellent Good Men Project
online magazine.
Go and have a wee look at Brian
Trout’s terrific article and tell us what you think?
Spencer and I have been meaning to
have this conversation for a while. We’re both romance erotica writers on
slightly different sides of the page, or was that bed? The views from the
female and male side of what we write bring up some interesting points and
ideas we hope to convey to our readers along the way.
Spencer has the more unusual
experience of writing in a genre that is heavily dominated by women writers.
It’s also saturated with women readers. The original question Brian was asking,
among others was: Do women readers refuse to read anything written by a man in
romance erotica, simply because he’s a man?
I said no, that wouldn’t
automatically turn a woman reader away. What we find harder when reading a male
writer of romance erotica is that men often have the mechanical action part of
sex, but largely miss out the important emotional aspect of having sex or
making love with someone.
Years ago, someone said to me,
“You could tie a man up and blindfold him. It wouldn’t matter who gave him a
blowjob, he’d still come. Whereas a women wouldn’t. She has to have the
emotional connection there.”
SPENCER:
I've
never heard the story about the blow job. That's funny in a guy way. What I
have said is, if a man was trapped on an island with the ugliest woman in the
world, he'd fuck her.
On the
other hand, if a very beautiful woman was stuck on that same island with with a
less than desirable man, she'd eventually bond with him and they would make
love. Women are bonders and sex is a natural expression of bonding. (Ergo, my
only hope with Eva Mendes is to be trapped on an island.)
MEG:
LOL. Oh my god. That’s so
accurate. Yes, you’re right—women ARE bonders. Why aren’t all men? And one
thing I’ve noticed with men sometimes. They LET the women be the bonder,
without putting a great deal of effort into the relationship. But take the bond
away and they’re not always happy about that. What’s that about, do you think?
SPENCER:
One hope I have for
my writing, or one thing that would make me feel very fulfilled as a writer is
if I ever got a note from someone that my story lead to a conversation about
sex.
Most of my stories, the woman gently leads the man to the way to please her. Women need to understand that a few simple words can dramatically improve their sex life..."I like it when you do...X
Do you
know, I’ve never read an erotica story with someone? I know our fellow romance
erotica author Michele ‘Mikey’ Rakes does with her husband. I always find that
fascinating. I’d love to be able to do that with someone. I think even the fact
that someone could read a story and it might encourage them to try something
new or talk openly with their lover is a huge bonus.
So, here’s
my question always to the men out there. I actually like Spencer’s way of
saying, “I like it when you do X…” It’s a nice direct, but gentle way of
guiding someone.
Are men
actually open to that Spencer? Because I’ve been with some lovers who didn’t
listen, couldn’t have cared less what was working for me or not. Needless to
say, they lasted five minutes as someone I’d see again. But do you think
generally, most men WOULD be open to that suggestion and why?
SPENCER:
Meg, men and women's sexual turn on's and responses
are so different, it's amazing that we ever get together. Sometimes you want to
ask God, Mother Nature or Darwin , 'What
were you thinking?’ By and large men's turn-on's are quick, visual and urgent.
I haven't read erotica with someone either. I have
watched soft core porn though. (Am I ever dating myself-does that even exist
anymore?).
Of course in the dating world you're going to have
terrible misses, but I think it's safe to say that men really would like to
please a woman. Seeing, feeling, hearing a woman's sexual excitement is a big
turn on for guys-especially if he's the one doing it. But we don't know how and
we lack the verbal tools. Face it, men are just not good at verbalizing
feelings and once blood leaves the brain to service the demands of the
libido... well, sometimes there just isn't enough blood.
My dating days are long behind me. But in the time I
was out there I had enough lovers to experience how very different women were
about sex. The only way a guy can learn how to please a particular woman is if
she guides him. Now we may be insensitive louts at times but our sexual ego is
very fragile so as I suggested above the best way is to focus on the positive.
"I like it when you do…X." If
you, a woman, can say that, he'll most likely do it. If he doesn't, then that's
a pretty good sign you're kissing a frog who's never going to be a prince.
MEG:
Okay,
listen up ladies; we’re getting very sound advice here. You’ve GOT TO SAY
something. I do think sometimes there’s a slight attitude of: “Well, they
should know.”
In an ideal
world—yes. But most of us didn’t grow up in one of those. Where would we even
learn that stuff from? Certainly not our parents unless we’re really lucky. I
like the phrasing he’s used and think we should all adopt it.
Let's be clear ladies. This could be why men don't ask us for directions :-) |
Spencer
brings up the point that seeing, hearing, feeling a woman’s excitement is the
biggest turn-on for a guy. I’d agree with that. You don’t have to be a living
breathing replica of Marilyn Monroe (Just note also: a very curvy woman by
today’s standards. We love curvy women and so do men. Actually Spencer, can you
please talk about that next for the women out there? Especially considering
that we know men are very visual.)
But back to
the, ‘what turns a man on question.’ When I was younger, I used to hang around
with some older guys who used to tease me all the time for being a virgin.
Steve’s greatest advice to me was, “Don’t lie there like a stuffed dummy. Move
about, make noises, let a guy know you’re enjoying yourself.” Best free advice
Steve ever handed out! I took it.
By the same
token, I like a man to also let me know that what I’m doing is turning him on.
And
returning for a moment to the ‘did you catch a frog,’ syndrome. What if he’s
not doing anything where you can use
that phrasing, of, ‘That feels nice or I like it when you do…X?’
Every so
often, I’ve gone out with a nice guy and he just would NOT listen. Why?
Obviously, you can’t speak for him for Spencer, but take a wild stab in the
dark. Oh dear, that image…yes…part of the problem with this guy. Hmmm. J
SPENCER:
Meg, lets deal with the issue of body image. Guys love
curves. It's the fashion industry that puts women up to this ridiculous
standard of skinny.
If I had a magic wand I'd wave it over women to banish
this foolish notion about body type. It's very destructive, particularly since
it is moving down the age range to girls. It contributes to the struggles with
sexuality. Women need to feel desirable before they can appreciate being
desired. So both sexes start out on the wrong foot. The guy has trouble
expressing himself and the woman thinks it's the way she looks.
"Does this make me look fat?" Is never a
question a woman should ask a man.
Marilyn Monroe is an interesting example. Yes she had
curves, but she did not have a model's face of high cheekbones etc. She had
allure…far different from good looks. It was the allure that made her a screen
idol for men. I think any woman who's comfortable with her body and feels
desirable, is going to project plenty of allure. I wish I could recall the name
of the author and the book-it was a tell all by a former call girl-okay-hooker.
She said the biggest turn on for men was excitement-if they had a partner who
was excited about them. Isn't that one of the reasons men are so easily led
into affairs-someone shows some excitement for them. In my own crude way I say
men want two things stroked, their ego and their cock.
I can't speak for guys who won't listen but I can say
that men's sexual self image is often way below what they project. (It's why we
laugh and cry at Woody Allen's characters.) You're a therapist you know that
when people feel very insecure, it's almost like panic- they can't hear.
So that brings me around to the stab in the dark. Too
much sex happens in the dark, under the covers with eyes closed.
I think in ideal world virgins would be defrocked by
older, calmer, self confident experienced men and young men would be
indoctrinated by older women who are comfortable with their sexuality. It would
be a great premise for a story. I actually have an unpublished story called
"Tricks of the Trade" where a young plumber meets an older woman at
the big box store. She's desperate to complete some repairs before her party.
He shows her how to fix her plumbing, she shows him how to use his better.
MEG:
You’ve
brought up some great points there Spencer. I’ll get back to them in a minute.
I just want to bring up another thing that you and I have touched on briefly in
emails. Spencer and I were both involved in the Good Men Project with Brian
Trout. One of the things you’ve noticed is that older men’s sexuality is not
addressed as well. What are the things you’d like to have more articles or just
information on? I know when I was researching for Henry and Isolde, the info I
wanted was harder to find than I imagined.
One of my
main characters Henry is 68 and he’s surprised he can even get an erection that
lasts. Or that they keep coming back. I have a theory that the more we use our
sexual energy in our body, the more it’s there. The more sex we have, the more
the fire energy in the body is activated. I also have Henry using a transdermal
testosterone cream on his skin everyday. This is not a ‘steroid’ quality. It’s
just the amount of testosterone a man has stopped reproducing naturally in his
body. In the same way that women need natural progesterone cream from their
late thirties onward, when the body stops slowing down the production.
I wanted it
to be realistic for Henry, but also have him still able to have sex, just not
all the time. I researched it and one doc said he still had a patient that was
having sex at 98. So that gave me hope on lots of fronts.
I think
it’s important for women to know too that we don’t hit 50 and everything shuts
down. I turned 50 last year and thought…I’m not ready to hang up my sexual
slippers. I’m too young still!!
Okay so
coming back to the ‘we like curves’ theme. I’m just sitting here with a young
male friend of mine and he’s also a fan of curves. I just asked him why. Here’s
what he said: “Bigger thighs and arse are better. Something to hold onto. It
feels good. Size 00 feels awful.”
Take note
everyone.
I asked him
what our ‘fat’ feels like to him.
“It just
feels like skin. Soft skin. ‘More cushion for the pushin.’” Crude, but true.
I’ve made
the same observations Spencer has. It’s the way we feel about ourselves that
makes us sexy or have allure. Men like curvy women that have confidence.
I agree
with Spencer about teaching younger people with older, more experienced men and
women. The French always used to train their boys that way. And I presume those
lovers skills got passed on to the women. I, for one, would LOVE to see young
men trained to be lovers by skilled patient older women. I’ve been out with too
many men that were terrible in bed, because they just didn’t know what they
were doing. Or didn’t listen to either instructions, clues, hints…or even just
the noises I was making didn’t seem to clue them in. I’m noisy. If I’m not
making appreciative noises, you haven’t hit anything good.
I know some
people are not very expressive, but there are clues generally that something is
happening. You can generally tell from their natural reactions like:
goosebumps, shivers, exhaling really hard. If you pay close attention, the
carotid goes in the neck, the pupils dilate and breathing changes.
Adam says that most men’s goal is to pleasure themselves. But his main goal is to pleasure his partner. Why? Because it gets him off. It turns him on.
“Why does
it feel better,” I ask?
“It’s more
intimate, more of a connection, it’s a better feeling, even with a one stand
night. It’s a false sense of intimacy, yes, but you gain this security that you
feel safe, that even though it’s a one night stand, the connection is there.”
SPENCER :
Meg, if Dr. Oz was with us he'd say there are many
reasons for a decline in male sexual performance, many are lifestyle related
like smoking, obesity and excess alcohol consumption. Add to the list
circulatory issues, especially adult onset diabetes, medications for high blood
pressure and cholesterol. The blue pill is probably the worlds most consumed
recreational drug.
Henry may be a bit of an outlier in terms of male
sexual performance, but I think the endearing thing about his story is the way
that youthful infatuation can happen at any age.
Years ago, travelling on business, I was sitting
across the isle from a man who must have been close to 90. He was making the
most romantic talk to his seatmate, a woman who looked roughly his age, then he
kissed her full on the lips. It was so touching.
If there is a secret, it's probably in making the
decision to remain a sexual being. I just wish we could lose the obsession with
youth.
MEG:
Yes, agreed
Spencer. I’ve realized that despite being chronologically 51, I don’t feel it
or look it. And I’m not the only person out there who feels that way. We’re not
aging the way our Grandparents or parents did. We’re still keeping our zest for
life. We’re not ‘aging gracefully’ and frankly I’m good with that. I don’t want
to hit the stop button because I’ve reached a ‘certain age.’ I loved your
recall of the man who was 90 and his lover. How gorgeous!! Isn’t that what’s it
all, at the end of the day.
There are
three things in life we need:
Something
to do
Someone to
love
And
something to look forward to.
So, have we
come to any other conclusions in this conversation, or just waffled on? LOL. J
I think
that men and women all over the world naturally want to bond and mate with
another being. We want the connection, love, contact, companionship, sex,
laughter and the dancing in all its various forms.
Whether men
or women write romance erotica, it doesn’t seem to matter. It’s more the fact
that we do have both genders writing about it. Despite the years of increased
sexuality out there in awareness, education etc, we need to communicate with
each other. And whatever way that’s available, I’m keen to see more of that.
I’m
currently editing a book for another romance erotica writer and one of her
stories is exactly what we’ve been talking about. The need for people to
communicate more. She’s had lousy sex for years. He watches a porn flick and
comes home to try it out. When they finally get it right, he’s sad. He realizes
he’s missed out on years of wonderful sex with his wife.
Women: Say
what you like. “I like it when you do…X” “Right there, that spot, that’s
perfect.” Also, it’s okay to position someone’s hand or anything else so they
know what works for you. People aren’t mind readers. Ask the man what he likes
too.
Men: Listen
and take the time to learn EXACTLY how that works for your lover. Most men I
find are too rough. We’re not men, we’re women. Our skin is often more
delicate. It requires less pressure than yours. Rub your fingers back and forth
across your palm with a steady even pressure.
Okay, now lightly stroke your palm with your fingers. Can you feel the
difference? That’s the lovely sensation we like. It doesn't require elbow grease!
Which brings me to: Use our
natural lubricant, please. I don’t like having my skin rubbed raw because
someone’s grinding my dry skin or hasn’t had thought to check if we’re turned
on and wet.
And for
God’s sake. Do NOT stop half way through. Stop when a woman pushes your hand
away, because she’s too sensitive from the massive orgasm she’s just had and
can barely speak.
Only a
relatively small percentage of women climax through penetration. Check with
her. Ask. I know, asking for directions. J I’m
teasing, but also serious. Someone once told me, that he always makes sure a
woman orgasms first because it’s a) a huge turn-on, in itself and b) the
vaginal muscles are contracting from the orgasm and it’s tighter and more
stimulating for him when he enters her.
In terms of
what we write: On a personal level, I love good soul searing sex and soul deep
emotionally connected relationships. So I write what I love. I think the sex is
as much a part of the relationship as anything else and when it’s not in a
book, I feel slightly cheated. Oy! Where’s the good bit gone? J I also think it’s a natural part of life and
relationships. I want to see that well represented.
Contact Meg or Spencer at:
www.troikaromance.com - Meg Amor
http://www.fictionbyspencer.com/home.html - Spencer Dryden
So well done. Incise, intellectual and funny. Oh, yeah......do these black leather ballerina thigh boots make me look fat? Only when you fall on the floor!! "More pushin' for cushion." THIS is a wonderful blog and article. ~ ☼ღஜ レo√乇 ¸.☆¨¯`*.✿.*˜"*°
ReplyDeleteMuffy:
DeleteLOL! Thanks for your comment. You seem to be a collector of great photos, perhaps you should publish the photo you are describing.
Aloha Muffy! :-) Thanks so much for the great comments!! And thanks for reading. We appreciate it. :-)
DeleteLOL on the black leather boots! :-) Gorgeous.
Aloha Meg :-)
I also pubbed a link on my blog. Hope you don't mind. I am just not quite so erudite....I just have great pics and my writing of course.. xo
ReplyDeleteMuffy:
DeleteI'm a guy so of course the pictures are far better than words. I'm the guy who was looking for the hot photo of the two girls making out I wanted for my friend Daily, who has quite a fetish about girl on girl. Thanks for reposting. Meg and I are planning more of these candid discussions.
Aloha Muffy,
DeleteHell no! Thanks for publishing our link on your blog. Anytime, we love that. :-) I'm going over there soon to see your page. :-) What fun!
Aloha Meg :-)
Excellent conversation. It should be required reading. We all need someone to love and a goal in life. We all need to communicate, especially men. We need to ask what you like, what you want. What turns us on? Frankly, when I was younger, sometimes turning sideways in the wind would do it. I think men were designed by MOTHER Nature to impregnate and that means quick arousal and performance with little or no concern for their partner's pleasure. We need to pay more attention to our female partners' responses. And one thing this means is that there is a need for more male erotic romance writers in the field. Hey, come to think of it, that's the one thing I haven't tried . . .
ReplyDeleteAloha John!
DeleteThanks so much for your excellent comments as always. :-) And thanks for reading. So, you're going to join our exalted ranks as a 'hot' writer. :-) LOL. Have you told Lea. LOL.
So glad you enjoyed the conversation. I loved your comments. So true.
Giggling over the 'standing sideways in the wind' comment. :-)
I agree that when it comes down to sexual arousal, we operate largely on the 'reptilian' brain and it's core survival needs to a larger degree.
One of the things I know is that the more the woman is enjoying herself, the more intense it seems to be for the man. So it's really benefits them as well to take the time to listen and communicate.
Thanks as always for your comments John. I always enjoy hearing from you. :-)
Aloha Meg :-)
John:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your very thoughtful reply. If you have seen the article in the Good Men Project at the front of this blog post, you'll see that as men writing erotica we are performing a valuable public service. Whoda thunk?
Wonderful blog post. I'm also weighing in on the benefits of sex with...ah...more mature partners. All that vigor wasted on fumbling youth! I hope y'all always have someone to love, a book to write and a hot night to look forward to.
ReplyDeleteAloha Patricia, LOL Love you comments, thanks so much for reading and enjoying. :-) Yes, agreed, all that vigor IS wasted on fumbling youth LOL.
DeleteYou sound like a Southerner :-) I do like my Southern people.
I think your someone to love, a book to write and a hot night to look forward to, sounds pretty damn perfect to me! I'll take one of those. :-)
Thanks and aloha Meg :-)